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Bombay Addict and Mishti talk to housing activist and architect Chandrasekhar Prabhu in an explosive interview. A must-read for Mumbaikars. |
Chandrashekhar Prabhu graduated in architecture from the Sir J.J. School of Architecture (1979), and was elected as the youngest MLA to the Maharashtra Legislative Assembly (1985). He has been Chairman of SEEPZ (Santacruz Electronic Export Processing Zone), Mumbai (1982-93), Chairman of the Drugs and Pharmaceutical Committee of the Government of Maharashtra.
He was also on the Board of the Bombay Metropolitan Region Development Authority (BMRDA) (1985-92), was President of the Maharashtra Housing and Area Development Authority (MHADA) (1993-95), and was Chairman of the Advisory Committee to the Housing Department of the Government of Maharashtra, and Advisor to the Chief Minister of Maharashtra (1999-2004).
He has also served on the Board of the Slum Rehabilitation Authority, and was on the Independent Monitoring Panel for World Bank Schemes in Maharashtra.
He is presently the Editor of the Economic Digest, Infrastructure Today and the Journal of the Indian Institute of Architecture . He is also a visiting lecturer at educational institutions in India, U.K. and U.S.A. He runs a talk show called Ghatna Chakra , which will soon be completing 380 episodes on DD Sahayadri Channel. He appears on the show every Saturday from to and every Sunday from to
1. It’s almost a year after the 26/7 floods in Mumbai. How has the state progressed on cleaning up the Mithi River?
Other than paltry beautification scheme of cleaning up the
We need to understand the concept of a river delta. A delta is where the river splits into tributaries and covers huge tracts of land in these tributaries. The land between these tributaries acts as a sponge and in technical terms, these lands are dissipation spaces. Any low-lying river would have these dissipation spaces as bases, which hold the water during high tide and heavy rains.
The basic law in any urban development procedure is that these dissipation spaces should not be tampered with. When ever there is a water body coming down from the hills, especially in undulated land, and meeting the sea, vacant space has to be given to the water body.
In our case, the entire Bandra Kurla Complex (BKC) has been planned exactly in this dissipation space. What has happened is that 300-400 acres of land which was part of the dissipation space was taken over and filled up by the stroke of a pen. No amount of dredging would compensate for that.
2. So, is there a solution to the
On the macro level, we need to look at preventive solutions. Most importantly existing dissipation spaces should be identified and till the time solutions are not arrived at, these spaces should not be tampered with. However, what is happening today is exactly the reverse. 5,800 acres of salt pan lands and 3,400 acres of no-development zones are sought to be developed. These lands are dissipation spaces. While BKC cannot be undone, the least the Government can do is to accept that it was a mistake and take decisions so that the same mistake does not occur all over again in these places.
On the micro level, there could be lot of architectural changes to the BKC. Technology is advanced enough today for us to have micro-piling and tunnelling inside. There could be a series of tunnels which could create reservoirs to hold the water under the BKC. The River Thames in London has a similar concept. There is no dearth of solutions which the Government can choose from and there has never been a dearth of people giving urban planning solutions.
The problem is that the political leadership does not think beyond the 5 years of its tenure. The bureaucrat doesn’t see beyond his term of 3 years. The official sitting in the urban planning dept. today may be selling rice tomorrow. He has no expertise and by the time he develops it he is pushed away into another function. The system is such that nobody has any interest in looking out for long-term solutions.
3. The Mumbai Metro, a 30-year-old project, has finally been flagged off with the start of work on the Versova-Andheri Ghatkopar leg. What is your view on this project?
Unfortunately, most decisions for this city are taken neither by the politicians nor by the bureaucrats and surely not academically by urban planners. They are taken by the nexus of the builders-underworld-politicians.
The entire flow of traffic in Mumbai is north-south. So, why should the Versova-Ghatkopar leg be selected before the Colaba-Charkop leg? It’s very simple. It’s because the builders in these areas (like Versova, which has the Lokhandwala Complex or like Powai which has the Hiranandani Complex) who have acquired land for a song, want their property prices to escalate.
What was the need for the State Govt to invest Rs500cr as initial seed capital for something that is going to benefit only a section of the city? Why was this money not taken from these areas themselves? Funding was never a problem given that in the past 5 years, any new development in these areas would have paid a surcharge of Rs5/sqft/month. But the Government doesn’t want to look at these solutions because builders are holy cows that keep the machinery well-oiled.
4. You also remain a vocal critic of the Bandra Worli Sealink (BWSL).
My criticism of the BWSL is very academic. In any city that grows in a linear (North-South) direction, you don’t create bypasses to bring in more people unless you have decided what you would do with the traffic when it comes in. It has failed in New York, Los Angeles and all over the world. The concept of freeways bringing in traffic into downtown areas was a concept of the 60s and 70s which has been given up by urban planners as a bad dream. Instead of encouraging vehicles to come in, we should create public transportation systems that discourage people coming in to bring their own vehicles.
There is also the issue of entry and exit points of the BWSL. These points will handle anywhere between 75-100,000 vehicles at rush hour. If you assume each vehicle takes 10 seconds to pass by the entry point, where do you have land in South Mumbai where 75,000 vehicles can wait before the reach that entry point?
My activism apart, even as a senior professor teaching this subject for the last 20 years, how can I advocate anything which doesn’t even consider what happens at the entry and exit points? Look at what happened to the JJ Flyover. Even today, there is chaos at the points where you get on to the flyover and empty from it.
Let us now assume that the Government reclaims, say, 20 acres of land to hold 75K vehicles. An absurd solution, but the Government might even do it. The issue then becomes – where is the infrastructure to handle all these vehicles in the island city?
I also have objections to the BWSL location itself. Nature has given us the waterfront, which is the source of recreation and entertainment for a large portion of the city’s population. An unrestricted view of the sunset – the right of any romantic individual– is being taken away. The future generations are not going to excuse us for remaining silent to this ongoing spectacle.
5. What, according to you, is the solution then to the BWSL?
Let’s first assume that there is still a need for the freeway. The Bombay Port Trust road has now been opened up, so a road can be built above it. This would also be cheaper since it would be built on land and it would get people in faster than the BWSL. Next, a second tier of rail lines can be built upon the existing local railway lines. Finally, roadway could form a third tier above which would then also be the closest link to the city. Another option is to build a viaduct above the existing road networks.
To sum it up, on principal, I find the concept of making it easier to come downtown without considering local downtown issues objectionable. Even if there is a need to have faster commuting to the city, there are other options than spoiling the waterfronts.
6. Given that 50% of Mumbai lives in the slums, what is your view of the current Slum Rehabilitation Scheme?
The slum-dwellers are not benefiting out of this scheme. Instead of a rehabilitation scheme, what is happening is that the slum-dwellers are thrown back into the slums. 60% of the slum-dwellers are selling back the houses given in the rehab scheme within one year and moving back to the slums. This slum rehab scheme is among the worst things that have ever happened to this city.
Nowhere in the world do you permit the developer to earn Rs10,000/sqft against an investment of Rs500/sqft. With so much disproportionate income, the builder is always tempted to buy the slum-dweller off. It’s a typical sociological predatory tendency which has also been seen in Sao Paulo and Brasilia.
I believe a slum has to be understood as social phenomena. Most residences within the slums are residential-cum-commercial. For example, Lijjat papad, which employs 5 lakh women, works out of the Dharavi Slums. These women get the dough in the morning, make the papad and lay it out in the open for the sun to bake throughout the day. How would you expect these women, who stay and work in these slums, to move to multi-storey apartments? Their earnings are in their houses because their houses are on the ground.
The schemes are not catering to the poor and are always meant to make money for the builder. The committee which formulated the current rehab scheme had no slum dwellers, but only builders. Now, would someone making such a scheme make it in a way to benefit someone who the same builder is going throw out? It was never meant to be a slum dwellers scheme. The Govt also appointed a committee under Mr. S. S. Tinaikar, former BMC Commissioner. He made a 700-page report whose summary says that this slum rehab scheme is of the builder, by the builder, for the builder; it should hence be stopped forthwith and an alternative scheme should be worked out with the contribution of all stake-holders.
7. Again, what solutions would you advocate for the slum rehab issue?
There is a solution within the scheme. There is a self-development option to the slum-dweller under which they can develop the land themselves and get a larger corpus than what the builder gives them. This corpus can then be used to pay the outgoing expenses, which are at a high Rs2-3,000/month (higher than their income). There can also be a cafeteria approach to the issue and there could be a plethora of schemes. If the slum dwellers have to benefit, they should be there in the decision making process. Only then will they feel involved in the process of redevelopment. This could also act as a regulatory mechanism in the housing sector. If those who want to buy houses at reasonable prices and those who are squatting on land can be brought together, then both will benefit. Real estate prices in the city would be 1/3 rd of the artificial levels they are at currently.
8. You were also an activist on the Mumbai Mill Land Case. Now that the Supreme Court has allowed mill-owners to retain a larger share of the mills, what should be the way forward?
The lands must be pooled together and development should follow a master-plan. Roads, water drainage system and other infrastructure parts should be developed in an integrated manner. I have no grudge against the builders making money, but the city should not suffer in that process. Let the development be beneficial for the city as well. In any case, the city has lost 100 acres of land as green space. Our own chance for the city to have its Central Park has been lost. But even today, now that they have been permitted to do what they want, it should be done in a planned manner in which everyone will benefit.
9. There are multiple agencies controlling different areas in the city (BMC, MMRDA, Railways, BEST, etc). Are you in favour of centralisation and a CEO for Mumbai?
It’s very unfortunate that we focus on who does the work rather than what work is being done. From my perspective, who does the work is immaterial, whether it is MMRDA or BMC. The focus needs to be on what work is being done and what tools of planning are being used. So, if the Mill Lands or the dissipation spaces of the salt pans are going to be sold, I don’t think who permits these decisions really matters. We spend a lot of time and energy to discuss things which don’t matter to the city in anyway. I would rather see discussions on what planning principles are being used for development.
10. Have the politicians of Mumbai failed the city over the years?
The attitude of the city’s politicians belonging to all the parties is simple. It is that of a brothel keeper when she looks at an 18-year old girl just bought into prostitution. The keeper looks at this girl with awe and greed and wants her to make the most money by taking as many customers per night as possible. The keeper knows very well that eventually she’s going to succumb to AIDS or some disease. But the keeper also knows that she would have made enough money by then.
That is exactly the way in which politicians look at the city. They know that this city is going to crumble. I’ve had informal discussions with most of them. I’ve spoken to them very strongly on these issues and they’ve shown lip sympathy all the time. But over years and years of talking and handling them, you can make out that they don’t care at all. They’re just not bothered if there’s going to be a huge hurricane or catastrophe to the city. They’ll use that to garner more resources and make more money. For them any disaster is an opportunity.
11. Is there a cure to the problem and if so, what have you done about it?
I have realised that instead of breaking my head with the political system, I have to go directly to the people. So I am trying to reach the grassroots and educate the people as to what is good for them and what is not. You need to come through the people because when an issue is discussed at an academic and intellectual level to a politician or a bureaucrat, he doesn’t want to understand it. But when it comes from the people through the politician to the bureaucrat, perhaps he understands it. In some cases it is making a difference, because the politicians have their ears to the ground and for them those numbers matter.
In the past two years, I’ve held 2,700 meetings in the slums and amongst the people. For the first time there are public meetings when we talk about issues of development. I often refer to the Burroughs of London, where there is a voting even on whether a road should be widened; where the people are empowered to take decisions pertaining to urban development of their area. Every individual who is a stake holder has a right to either say yes or no for any development project. These days, I am explaining to people and trying to convince them how important it is for them to participate in the process.
12. This is quite similar to the concept of participatory democracy, something that Mr. Ramesh Ramanathan of Janaagraha has done in Bangalore. Can this be implemented in Mumbai?
There is already something similar underway called Vote Mumbai. In fact Mr. Ramanathan was with me on the dias, along with Dr. Jayaprakash Narayan of LokSatta when we launched the website of their campaign – ( http://www.votemumbai.org). You can look it up for further details.
(Bombay Addict is Bombay’s Addict. When he’s not caught in the perils of corporate life, he chases lines of traffic jams, crowded trains and dug-up roads in the city he’s hooked on to. Somewhere in between he’s found blogging at Bombay Diaries and Mumbai Matters.)
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