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Abhijit Nath talks to pathbreaking bass player Sean Malone about his influences, his love for Bach and his prog/jazz/metal project Gordian Knot. |
{mosimage} Sean Malone first came to prominence in the early 1990s as bass player for the pioneering jazz/death metal band Cynic. Post Cynic’s breakup, he released a solo album named Cordlandt as well as doing sessions work on a number of albums. His recent work has included the impossible-to-classify Gordian Knot project, which has released two albums featuring the cream of jazz/fusion and metal, including all four ex-Cynic members, Trey Gunn of King Crimson, John Myung of Dream Theater, Ron Jarzombek of Watchtower/Spastic Ink, Steve Hackett of Genesis, Bill Bruford of Yes and Jim Matheos of Fates Warning. Most recently he has played on Dream Theater drummer Mike Portnoy’s tribute to Rush, Cygnus and the Sea Monsters. He blogs at http://smgk.blogspot.com. Hafta: Hi Sean, thanks for this interview. What are you working on these days? Sean: It’s my pleasure, thanks for asking. I’m currently working on a few things: Editing my new theory book and writing a new book on perfect pitch; working on some new research regarding the composer Anton Webern for a magazine article; preparing for a talk in H: I understand you’ll be in S: I’m giving a talk on my current research regarding musical imagery and cognition, centering on performances by the pianist Glenn Gould. The work involves the choices we make when performing, the kind of “pressures” involved in shaping them, and how physical gestures we make represent them metaphorically. H: I heard about the ‘Cygnus and the Sea Monsters’ Rush tribute concert you did with Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater), Paul Gilbert (ex-Mr. Big) and Jason McMaster (ex-Watchtower) that’s coming out on DVD soon. What was that experience like? {mosimage} S: Too short! I remember as a teenager, learning songs like Hemispheres, never dreaming that I’d ever play them. Then to play them with such great players…to even be asked is a great thrill. I’ve just heard the mixes and I’m really excited about the CD. H: What were your influences growing up as a musician? Also, what bands and genres did you play in before you joined Cynic? S: The first bands I started listening to were Led Zeppelin (my older brother listened to them all the time) then I heard Rush. Eventually I got into Yes and I stuck with those three for a long time. Then friends got me into bands like Bauhaus, The Cure, and then Japan, and while I still wasn’t playing music yet, Mick Karn had a big impact on my notion of what a bass player could do. Of course, once Jaco entered my musical life, everything changed. Before Cynic I did a lot of playing in the
H: I hear you’re very much into the theory of cognition, especially the book Gödel, Escher, Bach. Could you explain a little bit about it and how it has influenced and tied into your work over the years? S: Well, the quick answer is “yes”, but the rest of it is a bit difficult to explain in a very brief manner, but here it goes: GEB, by Douglas Hofstadter, is a seminal work in the area of cognition, which is essentially a discipline that explores the fundamental mechanisms of human thought. Or, to borrow from one of Doug’s journal articles, it’s the pursuit of “understanding understanding.” While I maintain a strong interest in cognition, it’s more specifically music cognition that fascinates me. The work I’ve done in cognition and philosophy is a component of my interests not only as a musician, but also in the most general sense as someone who is intellectually curious about “how” we “know.” To that end, it doesn’t inform my composing or playing directly, but is another relationship that I have with music – just as teaching does, just as composing does, so philosophy and cognition do also. The best way I could explain it is, ever since I was little, I’ve always had an interest in…I guess I could call it…the ‘elegant design’ under something that appears to be more complex on the surface; things from the bottom-up…maybe that’s why I’m a bass player! H: I understand you’re pursuing your PhD on a cognitive theory of fugue. Could you tell us more about that? S: This, also, is a bit hard to boil down to something bite-size, but I’ll try: Fugue, considered the most erudite and strict of all Western musical genres (culminating in the work of J.S. Bach) is recognizable by certain recurring procedural features. However, we don’t refer to fugue as being a musical form, rather we call it a process. This seems strange given that fugue writing is so strict: we know it when we hear one, or see one, but yet there’s no all-encompassing formal definition that includes every fugue (unlike a “sonata” per se). So, in a philosophical sense, my research discusses the very thorny problem of “essence” (vis-à-vis philosophers such as Frege, Russell, Mill, Wittgenstein, and Kripke) as well as the cognitive mechanisms involved in perceiving fugue qua fugue – which I believe is essentially by analogy making. H: You have stated Bach and contrapuntal music as your greatest love. What is it about counterpoint that appeals to you so much? S: At first it was just a sense of appreciation – the kind of work and understanding that it took to render the work that Bach did. Then you get a sense of the eternal – that there’s something much larger than musical austerity going on in these pieces – and you start to realize that this music has so many layers of meaning and expression that several lifetimes would be required to untangle them all; knots in the fabric so to speak. Then it was a matter of trying to find something that may be underneath it all…and the discovery of what else had that same “stuff” in common. To apprehend how fugue “works” is to understand how two seemingly opposing forces can exist at the same time, our at least what we think are opposing, exclusive, or contradictory forces. It’s a lifelong pursuit and a constant source of wonder and inspiration. H: You’ve been one of the pioneering users of the Chapman Stick. Do you feel that the instrument has become part of the mainstream over the years or do you still get strange looks when you play it live? Also being a bassist, did you find it difficult to change your technique or was it natural for you? S: Thanks for the “pioneer” remark, but I’m not so sure of that. Being a Stick player means you’ll always be explaining the instrument to someone (if not everyone) in the audience, but that’s all right. I’m very much a proponent of the Stick and any chance I get to talk about it is welcomed. It wasn’t so much my technique that had to change, as it was my thinking. It’s not a version of a bass or guitar; therefore one shouldn’t play it like one. It requires a new and original approach, as it is a new and original instrument. Once this dawned on me, which took about a year, there was no looking back. The first Gordian Knot CD features my most comprehensive Stick work to date. H: You’ve written a book on Jaco Pastorius. Is he your number one influence as a bass player (‘Arsis’ seems very Jaco in intent, for instance)? S: It’s difficult to choose any single bassist as a number one influence, but Jaco has certainly had a large impact on my playing as well as my composing. (Sean was kind enough to attach sheet music for ‘Arsis’; musically-oriented readers can see the transcription by clicking here) H: Related to that, the fretless bass is somewhat of a rarity in ‘heavy’ music. Did you consciously try to use that approach or was it an accident? S: Up until recently, I haven’t even owned a fretted bass, so choosing fretless to play on Focus (Cynic’s debut album) was simply because that was the instrument I played. I prefer fretless over fretted, but I’ve recently had a fretted neck made for my Kubicki since every once in a while something comes along that really calls for a fretted bass. H: Your music, across everything you’ve done, is intensely technical, yet there is an inherent simplicity and peace in all of it. Was this what you were thinking when you named your project Gordian Knot? {mosimage} S: Actually, the name for the band was a little different in the beginning. I really liked the idea of a “knot” as some sort of a metaphor for what the project represented – different strands tied together creating a unified whole. So then I was looking for another word to kind of render this “knot” idea into some sort of object. I had about six or so ideas and I was running them by Ken Golden (president of the record company) to get his feedback. If I recall correctly, each idea was met with an even louder groan, culminating when I said “Gödel’s Knot”. Then he said “what about ‘Gordian Knot’?” Though I was vaguely familiar with the legend, I really didn’t have a sense of what the modern meaning of that expression was, so I did some reading and I liked the idea – complex problems, bold solutions. One of the song titles for the next CD is “The Alexandrian Solution” which refers to Alexander the Great’s cutting of the knot as his ‘bold solution.’ Nonetheless, Ken was the one who ultimately suggested “Gordian”, and it stuck. H: How did you chance across Glenn Snelwar prior to the Gordian Knot album, given that he was not a released artist at that point of time? That album must have been a huge break for him. S: I suppose you’d have to ask him since I wouldn’t want to put words in his mouth, but Glenn’s approach to layering and composition are very unique and very interesting. He gave me a demo he had recorded and I really liked it – the sense of harmony and especially his use of nylon string guitar on top of distorted guitars. It would never have occurred to me to even try something like that. So we set out to try and shape the GK material to have verse and chorus structures, but instead of vocals, that space would be taken up with solos. This way, the “verses” are composed parts rather than just support for the solos. In hindsight, GKI is too lacking in thematic material, something I tried to rectify on Emergent. H: Many of the songs on the Gordian Knot albums have interesting little hints and philosophical concepts behind them. Could you share some of them with us? For instance, why was A Shaman’s Whisper originally called Whispers at Gethsemane? What is Fischer’s Gambit about? Is there actually a chess connection in the way the song is constructed? Are there compositional cues to Bach in The Brook, The Ocean, besides the title connection? And any other clues about the other songs you might want to give out! S: There are quite a few questions in this question. Shaman was changed from
H: I’ve read the story of how some of the Emergent songs evolved on your blog. Could we have some insight into the creative process of the first album as well? S: I hope to have some of this material on my site someday, as I’m often asked about the structure of the music. So, I’ll save it for now since I’d like to present it with audio and transcription examples to make things as clear as possible. H: You’ve used tabla in Srikara Tal and Redemption’s Way. Are we going to see any more Indian influences in your future work? S: It’s quite likely, though I must say that Indian classical music – especially Hindustani music – has been a great influence on my compositions, my teaching, and my relationship with music in general. I’ve been studying tabla for about seven years or so – I’ll never be a very good player, instead the instrument for me is a learning tool and a means to explore the incredible Indian concepts of rhythm. The organization of rhythmic cycles in both Hindustani and Carnatic music has a sense of embodiment that has never existed in Western art music – or, at least not in the theoretical traditions of Western art music. {mosimage}
H: When you look back at your days with Cynic (sorry, the obligatory Cynic question must be there!), do you feel as if you’ve moved light years away from that music or do you still see glimpses of yourself and a natural evolution process from that album? S: Each recording and composition marks a particular creative time period, so by necessity one moves “away” from each completed work. My time with Cynic was much more as a collaborator on a project that was more or less finished before I came on board. We met when I was working at Morrisound and after a chain of events I was asked to play on the CD. It all happened very quickly and I tried to come up with bass lines that complimented the feel and sound of the band even though I had never played on anything like that before, and that I was completely into fusion at that time. So in a way, I approach new projects in the same manner I approached the Cynic CD – trying to find an appropriate and complimentary bass part for the music. This is primarily influenced by what the group/composer is looking for to begin with. I would like to think that each new recording/composition marks some growth from previous work, but I also realize that most people who listen to GK are familiar with Cynic and will always compare what I do in the future with what I did in the past. H: Do you ever see yourself as being part of a ‘band’ setup again, as opposed to doing individual projects with some commonality in theme? Is that something that still appeals to you? S: I don’t know if it would ever happen, but I would like that a lot. It’s a lot easier when you’re a teenager and you have fewer commitments! But the idea of recording and touring on a regular basis with the same group would be great. It’s much easier to collaborate now because of technology, so the need to spend a lot of time rehearsing as a full band for a recording project has lessened quite a bit. There’s no replacement for playing live though, and that what makes the difference between a “band” and a “project.” H: So what’s next for Sean Malone? Any long-term dream that you hope to see fulfilled someday as a musician or as a person? (I realize that’s a very open-ended question, but please try to answer it.) S: Well, I wish I had an exciting answer for this, but it’s just one day at a time for now. I have some book commitments to finish and writing to do for GKIII, and I’m looking forward to spending some more time on bass over the summer. Thanks very much for the interview! H: Thank you so much, Sean. It was wonderful. (Abhijit Nath is an alumnus of IIM, Ahmedabad and works for a private equity firm. He is a fanatic for any technically challenging music (jazz, classical music, prog-rock and black metal).He knows that this is a terrible bore and that he needs a life, but it seems like he’s living three already (with apologies to Terry Pratchett). He harbours dreams of playing for a jazz-rock band.) {mosimage} ({mhauthor})
One of the greatest experiences in my musical life was meeting Zakir Hussain last year. He was performing at the same show where we (Cygnus) were performing. I’ve seen him perform on several occasions and have been listening to his work for a long time…he is truly a master musician.
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